I typed out a long post about how this also plays out when dating when you're broke vs dating when you're flush, but deleted it because it came across as bitter.
Guys, if you find a woman who is at your side when you're down on your luck or you're struggling with something in life, you need to put a ring on her. It's very easy for women in America to discard men, even when it's not in their long-term best interests to do so. Our culture very much encourages them to drop you like a bad habit the second you're not their emotional punching bag and financial sponsor.
I'm happily married with kids now, but only after a series of relationships with unreliable women who loved themselves more than they loved the idea of being true partners. It probably helps that my wife grew up poor in a family that had good values. She knows what real struggle is, and understands how important it is to support the people close to you.
It's just life. I feel sorry for the guys who had to settle for unreliable women and then got burned or broken when they left at the first sign of adversity.
I've been with my husband for 41 years. We grew up together. I see what you're describing all the damned time! It surprises and hurts me because I have 2 sons and they are agnostic toward women when they should be "chasing skirts" for the good of mankind. I wrote about this - Ode to Neanderthals - Why I Love Toxic Masculinity - about why I am happy to be a woman by traditional standards in love with a traditional man. It's a partnership of epic proportions, about which I wrote again in a love letter/birthday ode to him called What Can I Say - He had me at hello. I feel this human tragedy of toxicity. I'm sorry it's this way for so, so many.
Donn. I have had enough interaction with you to know you have a great heart. If I was walking down the side of the road to nowhere, which is a road I have traveled, I would want you to be the next car driving by. As far as females I have had the same experience you are talking about and boy has it been painful over the years. But a quick story. When I got married the first time it got crazy early. I had taken a walk alone in the wilderness in the Silence for a couple of weeks like I had grown to love to do. I came home and was eating breakfast across from my betrothed. I noticed that she was looking at me scrutinous-like and as I puppy-dogged back at her the thunderbolt hit me. She did not love me one bit, in fact she hated me. I could see that like it was printed on her forehead. And it was clear that she was not aware of this. Now resentment does strange things in the psyche, it flips to guilt which drives you to want to make it up to the object of your resentment, which feels like longing which feels like love. But it ain’t, it’s a counterfeit. Anyway, as that was sinking in, lightning struck twice as I realized that I didn’t love her either. It was clear to me that the men in her life starting with her dad had failed to love her. Not finding that, she didn’t best she could under the circumstances and resorted to power instead. “If he’s going to fail me then I can’t trust him, so I must control him.” And the converse, “if I can control him, then he is weak and I don’t want him”. For me, nothing made me feel like a man, like I could get up in the morning and conquer the world, like the sweet, sweet sugar that momma gave me. And nothing felt worse than when she turned it off, which she did if I didn’t toe the line just so. So there we are in a cage match, mano a mano ‘till death do us part. I realized then that I was responsible for failing to love her, needing her instead to give me something missing in myself and that was not her role to perform. Once I figured that out, I set about looking long in the mirror to understand what I was missing that made me so dependent on the first place. I’d like to tell you that the journey learning to love her led to peace joy and understanding but that ain’t what happened. She wanted none of it and was outta-there. But the insight that the pain of her departure caused was beyond price and has led to unexpected riches here years later and contributed significantly to saving me from eternal jack-assness. Sorry for the long story, but seemed like it might be good. If it’s not, tell me and I won’t clog up your comments in the future.
I think, now, with failed marriages behind me, that toxic breeds toxic, hate breeds hate, and love only works when it is accepted. Sadly many of us react like frightened wounded animals lashing out at the hand reaching to help. I, have found , for myself, that that is the rule until, I figured out that I could choose a different response.
I can't choose for others, but, I can choose who I will be and What I will tolerate or allow.
Some prefer the comfort of their pain because they are afraid that things can be worse.
Wouldn't it be awesome if wisdom didn't require agony?
You said it, brother. I just turned sixty years old. I have five adult sons. I’ve worked almost entirely in male-exclusive occupations since I joined the Marines at age 17. In my own life and the many I’ve observed, it’s been other men dealing in and kindly helping the guys who survive this grinder. The only people who’ve shot me in the back were the two I gave wedding rings to. And the family court industry. And the Sisterhood. And the white knights.
We live in a society that doesn’t give a damn about men and boys. I therefore cheerfully no longer give a damn about that society. We can be looking out for our fellow men when we become aware of these situations. There are many. It’s always the tender-hearted, earnest ones who don’t survive them or get wrecked by despair. The boys whose fathers have been subtracted or minimized need us, too.
I also endorse the “It is what it is” attitude of acceptance…after the processing and digestion is done. That’s been my state for a long time. My sons (the ones capable of hearing) are wiser than I was at their ages. There will never be a Strike Three for me. I’ve found other, more realistic and pleasant uses for my energy and resources. It’s a peaceful, sensible life here. I beam gratefully about it every morning over my coffee. Best luck to you, amigo. I’ve not yet read anything else you have written, but you got a subscriber here.
I sadly came to the realization that our education system was anti-male oriented during my sons experience. And the vast majority of the most incompetent and vindictive teachers were women. My brilliant critical thinking daughter also suffered under these harpies. I still don’t understand how our society generated such anti-human people.
Luckily, my son survived and is very resourceful and competent in spite of those educators. I used to chalk it up to plain stupidity. Vicious people are usually stupid.
The women in my circle were brought up to be the best wives and professionals we could be. And often sacrificed to provide a good life for our husbands and families.
This is an interesting post. As a woman who has been on the receiving end of viciousness of men, of have been thoroughly dismayed by the women in my life and the women with power and how they abused that power the past 4 yrs in particular. I used to have so much anger towards men due to my experiences in my past. I worked really hard getting past it. I now am married with 2 boys and have come to the realization that people are people. Gender certainly plays a role, but if a person is going to be an asshole, that’s just who they are. I used to hold women to a higher standard and was let down because they are just people. Just as prone to being a bad person as anyone else. So my revenge is raising the best human beings I possibly can. My boys are kind, loving, funny…but they will not be anyone’s doormat. I think good parenting and love is how we can break the cycle.
I’m so sorry, Donn. I was raised among 5 male family members and worked in the maritime industry. Always felt more at ease with men. I’ve never understood how women (one of my friends used to say harpies) can be so horribly inconsiderate or even vicious.
True.
I typed out a long post about how this also plays out when dating when you're broke vs dating when you're flush, but deleted it because it came across as bitter.
Guys, if you find a woman who is at your side when you're down on your luck or you're struggling with something in life, you need to put a ring on her. It's very easy for women in America to discard men, even when it's not in their long-term best interests to do so. Our culture very much encourages them to drop you like a bad habit the second you're not their emotional punching bag and financial sponsor.
I'm happily married with kids now, but only after a series of relationships with unreliable women who loved themselves more than they loved the idea of being true partners. It probably helps that my wife grew up poor in a family that had good values. She knows what real struggle is, and understands how important it is to support the people close to you.
I’m sorry to read this, but I’m pleased you’ve found a good wife.
It’s sad that you had to go through all of that.
It's just life. I feel sorry for the guys who had to settle for unreliable women and then got burned or broken when they left at the first sign of adversity.
I've been with my husband for 41 years. We grew up together. I see what you're describing all the damned time! It surprises and hurts me because I have 2 sons and they are agnostic toward women when they should be "chasing skirts" for the good of mankind. I wrote about this - Ode to Neanderthals - Why I Love Toxic Masculinity - about why I am happy to be a woman by traditional standards in love with a traditional man. It's a partnership of epic proportions, about which I wrote again in a love letter/birthday ode to him called What Can I Say - He had me at hello. I feel this human tragedy of toxicity. I'm sorry it's this way for so, so many.
Donn. I have had enough interaction with you to know you have a great heart. If I was walking down the side of the road to nowhere, which is a road I have traveled, I would want you to be the next car driving by. As far as females I have had the same experience you are talking about and boy has it been painful over the years. But a quick story. When I got married the first time it got crazy early. I had taken a walk alone in the wilderness in the Silence for a couple of weeks like I had grown to love to do. I came home and was eating breakfast across from my betrothed. I noticed that she was looking at me scrutinous-like and as I puppy-dogged back at her the thunderbolt hit me. She did not love me one bit, in fact she hated me. I could see that like it was printed on her forehead. And it was clear that she was not aware of this. Now resentment does strange things in the psyche, it flips to guilt which drives you to want to make it up to the object of your resentment, which feels like longing which feels like love. But it ain’t, it’s a counterfeit. Anyway, as that was sinking in, lightning struck twice as I realized that I didn’t love her either. It was clear to me that the men in her life starting with her dad had failed to love her. Not finding that, she didn’t best she could under the circumstances and resorted to power instead. “If he’s going to fail me then I can’t trust him, so I must control him.” And the converse, “if I can control him, then he is weak and I don’t want him”. For me, nothing made me feel like a man, like I could get up in the morning and conquer the world, like the sweet, sweet sugar that momma gave me. And nothing felt worse than when she turned it off, which she did if I didn’t toe the line just so. So there we are in a cage match, mano a mano ‘till death do us part. I realized then that I was responsible for failing to love her, needing her instead to give me something missing in myself and that was not her role to perform. Once I figured that out, I set about looking long in the mirror to understand what I was missing that made me so dependent on the first place. I’d like to tell you that the journey learning to love her led to peace joy and understanding but that ain’t what happened. She wanted none of it and was outta-there. But the insight that the pain of her departure caused was beyond price and has led to unexpected riches here years later and contributed significantly to saving me from eternal jack-assness. Sorry for the long story, but seemed like it might be good. If it’s not, tell me and I won’t clog up your comments in the future.
We are all damaged. All broken.
I think, now, with failed marriages behind me, that toxic breeds toxic, hate breeds hate, and love only works when it is accepted. Sadly many of us react like frightened wounded animals lashing out at the hand reaching to help. I, have found , for myself, that that is the rule until, I figured out that I could choose a different response.
I can't choose for others, but, I can choose who I will be and What I will tolerate or allow.
Some prefer the comfort of their pain because they are afraid that things can be worse.
Wouldn't it be awesome if wisdom didn't require agony?
I hope I run into you someday.
You said it, brother. I just turned sixty years old. I have five adult sons. I’ve worked almost entirely in male-exclusive occupations since I joined the Marines at age 17. In my own life and the many I’ve observed, it’s been other men dealing in and kindly helping the guys who survive this grinder. The only people who’ve shot me in the back were the two I gave wedding rings to. And the family court industry. And the Sisterhood. And the white knights.
We live in a society that doesn’t give a damn about men and boys. I therefore cheerfully no longer give a damn about that society. We can be looking out for our fellow men when we become aware of these situations. There are many. It’s always the tender-hearted, earnest ones who don’t survive them or get wrecked by despair. The boys whose fathers have been subtracted or minimized need us, too.
I also endorse the “It is what it is” attitude of acceptance…after the processing and digestion is done. That’s been my state for a long time. My sons (the ones capable of hearing) are wiser than I was at their ages. There will never be a Strike Three for me. I’ve found other, more realistic and pleasant uses for my energy and resources. It’s a peaceful, sensible life here. I beam gratefully about it every morning over my coffee. Best luck to you, amigo. I’ve not yet read anything else you have written, but you got a subscriber here.
I sadly came to the realization that our education system was anti-male oriented during my sons experience. And the vast majority of the most incompetent and vindictive teachers were women. My brilliant critical thinking daughter also suffered under these harpies. I still don’t understand how our society generated such anti-human people.
Luckily, my son survived and is very resourceful and competent in spite of those educators. I used to chalk it up to plain stupidity. Vicious people are usually stupid.
The women in my circle were brought up to be the best wives and professionals we could be. And often sacrificed to provide a good life for our husbands and families.
Thank you sir!
This is an interesting post. As a woman who has been on the receiving end of viciousness of men, of have been thoroughly dismayed by the women in my life and the women with power and how they abused that power the past 4 yrs in particular. I used to have so much anger towards men due to my experiences in my past. I worked really hard getting past it. I now am married with 2 boys and have come to the realization that people are people. Gender certainly plays a role, but if a person is going to be an asshole, that’s just who they are. I used to hold women to a higher standard and was let down because they are just people. Just as prone to being a bad person as anyone else. So my revenge is raising the best human beings I possibly can. My boys are kind, loving, funny…but they will not be anyone’s doormat. I think good parenting and love is how we can break the cycle.
Absolutely!
Toxicity breeds toxicity. It a vicious cycle, a serpent that devours itself.
Sounds like you need an old fashioned girl. Good luck with that these days.
I’m so sorry, Donn. I was raised among 5 male family members and worked in the maritime industry. Always felt more at ease with men. I’ve never understood how women (one of my friends used to say harpies) can be so horribly inconsiderate or even vicious.
Toxic is a choice.
Period.
I don't get it either.
Whenever I drop the ball and behave in a toxic manner, I feel so ashamed that I have no words.
I cannot understand those that choose it, and choose to be that way.
I couldn’t do it, be it… it would never be who I am.
This is true.
The toxicity in life is created by toxicity.